Here at Juicy Secrets, we strive for the highest quality erotica. The three founding members of this site — Cheryl Taggert, JetBoy, and Naughty Mommy — were determined not to include anything but what they considered the finest of efforts. Some of the names may have changed but our commitment to outstanding lesbian erotica holds true.
If you wish to offer a story to us, please follow these Submission Guidelines:
- We ask that you submit stories through email. For a first-time submission by you, please put the first part/chapter of your story (or the entire text if it is a “stand-alone” story) in the body of an email, not as an attachment. If we want to see more (a good thing!), we will ask for it. Our submission email address is [email protected]. We check this mailbox frequently, but please be patient if you do not receive a response right away because we will have to discuss the submission first. One of us will email you when we find you have submitted a story for consideration so you’ll know we’ve received it.
- Before submitting anything to us, we strongly recommend that you peruse several of our published stories to see the kind of erotica we accept. Specifically, we are NOT interested in stories that contain any of the following:
- Scat, more than mild bestiality, or a story with a large focus being what is euphemistically termed “water sports.”
- One character forcing or coercing another into sex in such a way that the sexual advances are clearly unwanted (i.e., rape). This includes blackmailing someone into sex.
- A character being molested, as in physical touching where there is a lack of consent. (There is a fine line here, of course. For example, if two characters are sexually involved, some touching, etc., when one character is asleep is fine, but if the character being touched has not given consent to being touched by the other person, that’s molestation.) This includes drugging a character without their consent for sexual purposes. Essentially, if sexual contact is non-consensual, we won’t be publishing it.
- A character shown experiencing unwanted physical pain and/or severe degradation with the intent of titillating the reader. Obviously characters can have bad things happen to them, but not if the author means for us to enjoy it.
- Sex stories involving real human beings — celebrities, historical figures, etc. Fictional characters, however, are fine. In other words, a story featuring Emma Watson is a no-go, but a story about Hermione Granger, the role played by Ms. Watson in the Harry Potter films, is acceptable.
- Any other sexual contact that might be deemed “creepy” by the owners/editors of the Juicy Secrets website. (Yes, we know that’s very subjective, but it’s our site and we make the rules.)
- Male characters are acceptable, but only in a very limited role when it comes to sex. This is not a hetero-sex site. Look around. Juicy Secrets is for lesbian fiction, with a particular emphasis on woman/girl relationships and lesbian incest. Sex between a man and woman is okay as long as it is not the focus of the story and is important to what is the focus, the Ff sex. For an example of this, see the end of chapter 4 and the beginning of chapter 5 of Nanny for a Night.
- Stories may be any length, but keep in mind that the more detailed the story, the better it is — at least to a point. Leaving too much to the readers’ imaginations in stories such as these can result in a dissatisfied reader, and doing it well is extremely difficult. Just ask JetBoy about how hard it was to write a story like “Welcome Home, Sweetheart.” And that one didn’t lack details exactly, just the other side of the conversation. On the other hand, too much detail can bog the story down, sacrificing plot for details that are better left out. It’s a delicate balance.
- While we know you’re hoping for your story to be accepted, please understand that it may not be. We will be polite if we reject a story; please reciprocate with politeness when following up on any correspondence. We are aware that rejection can cause hurt feelings, and we will do our best to explain our reasons for turning a story down. In the end, though, we’ll only accept your story if it’s well-written throughout, not simply featuring a hot scene or two. It is our goal to become known as the best site on the Internet for our type of fiction, so our standards are fairly high.
- We reserve the right to correct obvious typographical errors; though we prefer not to make numerous corrections to spelling, grammar, syntax, etc. It is your story, so PLEASE do your own proofreading. Too many errors make for a sloppily written story and will result in rejection of the story even if it would otherwise be very good. If you don’t care that your story is not as good as you can make it, why should we take the time and effort to make suggestions, post, and highlight it on the website?
- We may also offer suggestions of ways to make your story better. It will be up to you whether or not you wish to implement any of what we propose. Keep in mind that we often provide each other recommendations for our stories with the aim of constant improvement. There is a blog entry here where you can see an example of that. Of course, you can reject any changes we suggest if you don’t care for them. On the other hand, refusing to allow a single detail to be altered in your story (even if it’s a genuine mistake) will have us less than enthusiastic about accepting your work.
- Please understand that the site editor has a life to live, and must devote time to eating, sleeping and scratching out a living. If accepted, your story is important to us, but it may take weeks or even months to prepare for posting. Sometimes (in fact, most of the time) there will be other stories ahead of yours in the Juicy Secrets queue. Patience is a must.
- If you would like feedback on how your writing can be improved, feel free to request that. Our input can either be brief, e.g., “Work on developing characters who feel genuine to the reader,” or it might be detailed, depending on how much time we have to work with you.
- If we decide to publish your story, you are allowed to choose a photograph to accompany it, if you so desire. However, we ask that you select your image carefully. No pictures are permitted that feature underage girls in the nude, or depict (or even strongly suggest) underage girls having sex — whether with another girl, an adult, or her fingers. This includes drawn images or anime. (Having seen sites like ours get shut down by The Man because of risky content, we wish to avoid a similar fate.)
- Once a story is accepted, it will appear on the website under the heading of “Guest Authors” with your name as the author. It will also be advertised on our home page to attract readers. Please use whatever name you wish to use for authorship in all correspondence.
With all this in mind, if you believe you have something of high quality to offer us, we’d love to see it. Good luck, and happy writing!
Will you accept stories that include Male characters as well? I used to have nearly 40k followers on instagram and almost a thousand on Wattpad before having both accounts deleted
Thanks for the question, Karen. Take a look at #3 above, where it says: “Male characters are acceptable, but only in a very limited role when it comes to sex. This is not a hetero-sex site.”
If you think some of your stories still might meet our guidelines, feel free to submit them as directed.
Please keep #3 … many here I suspect are 100% in favour of it. Personally that is why I joined.
Peccato che non accettiate racconti con maschi, ne ho uno bellissimo e non troppo lungo, ma voglio tenere l’estremo anonimato e tutti i siti me lo vietano. Ditemi : potrei scriverlo qui e voi che siete pratici di informatica potreste mandarlo a qualche sito e farlo pubblicare ? Capisco sarà difficile ma ci provo. Se proprio non lo volete o potete farlo , potreste darmi l’indirizzo di un sito che non pretende registrazione dell’autore?. Pe il vostro sito vi faccio i miei migliori complimenti
Google Translate: Too bad you don’t accept stories with males, I have a beautiful and not too long one, but I want to keep the extreme anonymity and all the sites forbid it. Tell me: I could write it here and you who are familiar with computer science could send it to some site and have it published? I understand it will be difficult but I try. If you really don’t want it or you can do it, could you give me the address of a site that doesn’t claim author registration ?. For your site I give you my best compliments
Is the lesbian lolita site still around?
Yes… the link is in the sidebar. It hasn’t been updated since the server troubles, though.
At a conceptual level, does BDSM (light, playful, consensual) fall within the “creepy” category? I am working on a story that I would like to submit, but I don’t want to move in a direction that is likely to be unacceptable.
Julie18 (below) is correct. Juicy Secrets would have no problem considering a submission that includes light, consensual BDSM. Where we draw the line is if things get into an area described in point 2d of our Guidelines. We look forward to seeing something from you, Tanya! 🙂
I certainly can’t speak for the admin but I don’t think that would be creepy. As long as it is consensual and lite, even moderate why not :-).
Recently I’ve read some things that have me wondering if there isn’t some small submissive side of me. Can’t wait to read your story
Whoops that was supposed to be a reply
Personally I stop reading at a hint of something I don’t like e.g. BDSM but, that is me, I say each to their own and it is all fantasy. Perhaps a code be shown in the introduction like Leslita? E.g. Fff bdsm etc. … just a thought.
do you know how to acess Ebo’s site, Black Lingerie?
Can we submit a true story of one’s life? Just curious
Can we submit true stories of personal bi, and lesbian experiences? I am not sure how to submit a story.
Yes and No. You can submit a true story as long as any sexual acts portrayed in the story do not involve minors.
Can we submit stories that involve trans or intersex people? Leslita refuses stories based on the presence of penises; your guidelines specify sex involving male characters, not sex involving penises. Are futanari characters fine as long as they are female-identifying and lesbian/bi?
Since I only check out lesbian stories when trolling the internet, the futanari fiction I’ve encountered always involve women who happen to have fully operational penises. An odd genre, to be sure, and not one that especially floats my boat… but I’ll be happy to read your submission.
What say you, readers? Is this something you’d like to see at Juicy Secrets?
I rather enjoy a good futanari story, myself. But it is very much a niche thing (Not that the Fg and gg stories we enjoy aren’t).
I personally would be perfectly open to such stories; whether it be futa, trans, or intersex. But a disclaimer would definitely need to be put at the beginning about it, which is something most such stories already do, honestly! No matter how you plate it, this isn’t going to be something to everyone’s taste.
A girl’s a girl in my book! If there’s a little something different under the skirt, that’s OK!
Thanks for the input, especially about a disclaimer. I’ll make sure to include something like that!
Probably not my kind of story, personally, but why not, as long as the quality is there. As Rosey said, such stories should probably have a warning, since I’m sure some readers won’t want to have anything to do with any tale involving penises, but oh well, not every story needs to be for everyone.
I enjoy stories (and videos) on a wide range of sexual permutations, including trans and crossdressing, and a lot of family stories, but rarely read or watch futanari unless the title or blurb catches my curiosity.
My personal choice would be not to include those stories here as I feel it would detract from the purity of the site. However, if such a story were to be received and Jetboy or Naughty Mommy considered it worthy, perhaps in the treatment of the topic from very much a female perspective, who am I to argue? A well written tale is a well written tale, but I guess you could then get some readers getting a bit uptight if others were rejected.
I totally agree with you about the purity of this site! I’d never want it featured here if it wasn’t a valuable contribution — both in subject matter and heat. We shall see!
well for me better to keep males away from our little angels. I may dream about a male doing this to my litle angel when she is 13/14 just and only to get her pregnant.. and with slow and loving sex..
Personally, I’d like Juicy Secrets to stay the way it is. It’s possible to find futanari stories on other websites if that’s what you’re looking for.
A really good point Angel. A search on Literotica brings up 22 pages of Futa stories, whereas JS is, since most other sites have age restrictions, the almost the only site that provides for our particular tastes, certainly if you want well written stories.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that any and all “futa” stories be accepted. I assume that if any such story is published here, it would also be in line with the site’s usual subject matters (underage and/or incest, for instance) and fit in with the other stories here thematically.
I hope this is the right place to suggest a story I am following on Nifty Archive, Lesbian, adult-youth. It is “Virginia & Giselle pas de deux”, about a 10 years old girl and her dance teacher… And just few days ago ch. 12 appeared. There are some kinky fetishes, but I love the quality of the story telling, and the humour peppering it. Unfortunately I could not find the author’s name. Maybe you are more adept at surfing than me, and find it.
I have that story saved – Part one was posted on NIFTY in July 2009 and subsequent chapters even further apart than Ripples. I have been pretty successful in tracking stories and authors for JS, helped by the fact I have over 22,000 stories saved on text and hundreds more as bookmarks and have also tried to find the author, but to no avail.
Please excuse me if this question is presumptuous:
I am trying to locate multi-chapter story about a school teacher “Mrs ______________”
something or other that seduces her children, teachers her class virtually during the pandemic while flaunting her body to them.
Thank you for “listening”
I am LOVING Ripples!!!!
Hi Kenneth, I just went through all of my files with Mrs in the title and none matched. I also checked all my links (favourites) and again nothing matched I’m afraid, even searching for pandemic. Are you sure Mrs was in the title?
Thanks for checking. no, actually I am not sure Mrs is in the title. Mrs or Ms ….Barbara …… senility is no fun.
Kenneth, the closest thing to what you describe is “Sheltering, by Shy Mom.
Thank you.
Is Sheltering on JS??
Thanks again.
I read that story on Lesbian Lolita, but the site is out, for now at least.
I think the story is “The new life of Lucy” by Dream. You can find it in the web.archive.org site, searching for https://leslita.sapphicshares.art/. 14 chapters were published before Leslita went down.
I saved ‘The New Life of Lucy’ by Dream (which started in May 2021) on text file up to chapter 14 as you said, with the last chapter copied this August, so I guess that one, like several other stories, it will never be finished.
Shy Mom in Guest Authors.
I would love to contribute to this wonderful site! I’ll have to do a minor bit of editing but hopefully my stories will be considered worthy of publication here.
We would be interested in reading what you have to offer. When you are ready, you can submit to the email address at the top of the page.
🙂
how do i get paid for my writing
Juicy Secrets is a non-profit site. The stories featured here have been freely submitted by the authors.
We don’t get paid, we do it for the love of writing and having this wonderful place to offer our contributions where we can express thoughts that we can’t do elsewhere.
I do it for my own gratification … and the pleasure of seeing what my readers have to say. Luckily for me, mostly good. I love it … end of.
That’s a question we’ve all asked ourselves at one time or another.
😊
Yes, we have asked ourselves that very question.
There have been ‘down times’ when we wondered. But at the end of the day, we love our little world.
We don’t know one another on JS, yet we have a sort of affinity. Besides JetBoy, Bluejean (I never remember the correct spelling), and Jacqueline, we don’t really know anyone. We have our regular commenters … don’t we just love them … and we have our readers. Seriously, it’s all we want. Why else would we bother?
I have learned so much from writing for here and what my editors have taught me. I have ambitions to be a serious author one day
Will I ever achieve that? Who knows? For now, I am more than content with what we do for JS.
It has been suggested by several people that we could earn some money on Amazon etc. with our writing. We have checked out what is on offer there and to be honest, it doesn’t much appeal to us for the rewards that might be gained.
So, we stick with here … as long as you want us.
At the end of the day. Our reward is that you like what we write … and even better … that you tell us.
PS. Jacqueline will hate how I have punctuated this.
Honestly, teacher, I am trying. Yeah, I know … very!
If you can write stories for JS then I would think it is a safe bet that you could write a story that you could sell on Amazon. I have 2 books published so far, using my real name and different subject matter of course.
Just imagine … sending the wrong manuscript to Mills & Boon!!!
Yeah, it probably wouldn’t end well.
If only the sort of stories we love could be published and enjoyed openly….. I can dream…?
Sometimes in all day meetings we have an ice breaker, and a couple of times we’ve had one where you make three statements where one is true and the others a lie and the others have to guess the true one. I’ve been sorely tempted to include that I write lesbian fiction knowing they’d never pick that as the truth. Maybe on my last day!!
Does anyone have the story “The New Life of Lucy” by Dream I’ve been looking for that story everywhere and can’t find it.
The question is already posted – look further back in this thread.
im not good at emailing so hope i did it right but so far nothing has happened but i found a story by nuit du loup that i submitted its pt1 i als have pt2. its been sitting there for a couple of weeks if i did it right. its under an old email of mine.
I guess we answered you on that before. A fact that you are aware of because you replied to our message.
You submit stories that you have written, not those written by someone else.
By all means, suggest a story that you would like to see published. There are those associated with the site that have most stories on file or access to them. Certainly, all of nuit du loup’s stories will already be known about. You have no need to submit them.
thanks for being kinda rude, but i dont remember asking about this before but you’ll never hear me ask about or suggest a story or anything else again and ive seen others ask about nuit du loup stories and no one seemed to have any so i figured i had one that i accidentally downloaded that I’d share it but I’ll keep it for my library. but thanx anyways.
The current link to Leslita’s author page is defunct. The new address is https://www.asstr.xyz/~leslita/authors/index.html please update your links on the right side of the site. Thank you to everyone involved for keeping this site going.
Thanks and done! 🙂
Hello, I’m a French speaker, I write stories in my language, Which might be appreciated here (I hope).
but I don’t know enough English to translate. Could someone help me?
Question: Is BDSM acceptable? Like, if an older woman dominates submissive little girls, would that be alright? I’m not talking about rape, but still more, eh, hardcore than your average lovey-dovey woman-girl story.
I’d like to submit a story please.
Please follow the instruction at the top of this page to submit a story.
I was just idly reading through this again when something popped out at me that I didn’t really notice before. I’m not sure quite how I missed it earlier – maybe it just didn’t relate to the stories I was writing at the time…
So we can’t submit stories with scat-play. Which is fine, it’s not my thing. I try not to kink-shame people who like things I don’t, but that’s just not for me.
We can’t have too much of a focus on watersports. That actually is my thing but that’s fine. It’s not my site and I can always work around that. People can always pee off-screen.
But we also can’t have ‘more than mild bestiality’. Really? So we can have SOME bestiality in a story? That’s a little unexpected…
Does this still apply? What actually counts as ‘mild’ bestiality?
And the Big Question: do people here actually want to read about this?
Beastiality on this site is super rare. The only instance I can think of was in a story by Cheryl Taggert or Naughty Mommy. I think it was Cheryl’s “Daughter of a Porn Star” but I’m not sure. Basically, in the story, it is mentioned that a young girl lets her dog lick her pussy. Nothing explicit. And according to the author she received lots of negative feedback for it.
Sorry for sort of necro posting, but would a story with an anthropomorphic character count as beastiality? If they have human intelligence/sentience/sapience
I don’t think that would cause a problem, but I’m not 100% sure. I’d suggest submitting it and seeing what the staff say. At worst they’ll just say no – nobody’s going to shout at you for it.
I have wondered about writing a story with a cat girl in it, but I’ve absolutely no idea how to make that work properly. I mean, other than making her say “meow” a lot.
In which language should I send you stories for verification in Russian or in English?
English, Please.
I haven’t seen this mentioned as being either allowed or forbidden, so I thought I’d ask: What about stories set in fictional worlds/alternate universes?
Any setting is acceptable.
I’m in the process of setting up an AO3 account for my fiction (some of my story ideas don’t fit your theme), and I have a few questions.
Do you have any issues with submitted stories also being hosted on other sites?
If you accept a story of mine, can I mention elsewhere that it’s also on JS?
If I end up making any notable changes based on your feedback, would you want me to give you credit for those changes elsewhere?
Some of the stories I’ve posted here also appear at other sites as well, so the answer to your first question is no, it’s fine.
We’re always grateful for a plug, so the answer to question No. 2 is yes.
As for question 3, I can’t speak for the other editors here, but as far as I’m concerned, a story is the work of the author. If you care to acknowledge any assistance, I’m grateful. If not, I don’t feel slighted. It’s entirely up to you.
1. Not at all.
2. Yes you may.
3. It’s up to you.
🙂
What exactly is “mild bestiality”, FFS?
To be fair I’ve never seen a story here with any bestiality, mild or otherwise.
Daughter of a Porn Star has a short scene with a girl and her dog.
Hamsters
Parrots. It’s risky, though, cause they can tell on you.
Oh I have a story. I think it could be great. But I’m not a writer….yet. I can’t even figure out how to keep the tense consistent. Past tense is a bad writing style, right? Gah!
Google – ‘how to get the tense right in writing’, there are some very good guides.
Here’s one link – https://justpublishingadvice.com/maintaining-good-tense-control-in-your-writing/
Past tense is actually my preferred style to write and read.
“She kissed her lover feverishly” sounds better to me than “she kisses her lover feverishly” one letter, but I have literally given away a trilogy of books to a friens over this.
I try not to leave more than three comments at a time. I’m sure people don’t want to see my name clogging up the ‘Recent Comments’ section.
But I couldn’t help but share this. I subscribe to an etymology newsletter, because I’m a nerd, and today’s edition mentioned Elmore Leonard’s ’10 rules for writing’.
Now, granted, he was talking about writing books and not erotica, but I thought there was some interesting tidbits in there. So, if anyone’s curious, here’s what he had to say:
” 1. Never open a book with weather.
2. Avoid prologues.
3. Never use a verb other than “said” to carry dialogue.
4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb “said”…he admonished gravely.
5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
6. Never use the words “suddenly” or “all hell broke loose.”
7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
9. Don’t go into great detail describing places and things.
10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.
My most important rule is one that sums up the 10:
If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.”
Useful advice? Or utterly irrelevant?
You tell me…
I don’t find that I agree with very much of that. On the contrary, I disagree with most.
I have never heard of Elmore Leonard, I don’t recommend paying much attention to what he says.
My first rule is – write from the heart. Say what you feel. Then when you get to edit what you have written, consider the reader. Ask yourself the question, will my readers understand what I am trying to say. Put yourself in the reader’s position and be very critical. Write as if you were painting a picture that illustrates what you are saying.
If you truly have the imagination to write a genuine story, then the hard part comes when you get to the edditing. The rule is, edit, edit and then edit again. It’s boring but it’s essential. Always consider the reader.
Don’t over worry about your grammar, as long as it’s not awful, that’s what your editors are for. But you don’t want to alienate your editor from the start, so google the basic rules of grammar. Most of us are shit at correct punctuation. It’s today’s education system. But remember, it’s very easy to google a sentence and find out if it’s right.
If you feel you have a story worth telling then have a go. You never know, you might just have a hidden talent. Expect your first efforts to be rejected. Figure out why and then work on improving things.
Ideas can come easily, it’s the putting them into words that others will enjoy reading – that’s the hard part.
Much as I appreciated your input here, let me put in a word in defense of Elmore Leonard, an enormously entertaining writer who is well worth checking out. Aside from his fine books, he holds the distinction of having more good movies adapted from his work than anyone. Out of Sight, Jackie Brown, Get Shorty, 3:10 to Yuma, The Tall T, Mr. Majestyk, Freaky Deaky, The Moonshine Wars and more.
Of course, Leonard’s specialty is crime fiction (flavored with a wicked sense of humor), so those rules make sense with his prose, but they would hamper a Nabokov, a Pynchon or a Joyce. Not to mention a BlueJean or a Rachael Yukey. Different strokes for different folks, as the song goes.
George Orwell also had a useful (and shorter) list:
1. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
2. Never use a long word where a short one will do.
3. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
4. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.
Donald Barthelme, whose work I’ve parodied elsewhere, also forbade his creative writing students from mentioning the weather. One of my own rules is to avoid the word “staring”. People stare entirely too much in fiction, as far as I’m concerned.
Of course, great writers throughout history have broken one or all of these rules at various times. I myself have used “suddenly,” cliched metaphors, and words other than “said” in dialog (esp. in my fairy tales, where “cried” or “exclaimed” felt more appropriate).
It is important to remember all rules are merely guidelines. They may be discarded at any time depending on the needs of the moment or the voice of the narrator. (See item 6 in Orwell’s list.) In my experience, the problem arises when editors or instructors turn them into fetishes and insist on making changes to passages I have thought through and phrased intentionally. I’m not thinking of Jetboy here, with whom I’ve has many fruitful discussions. I’m thinking more of those pedants who are so insistent on the active voice, for example, they’ll circle any appearance of the verb “to be” as passive. I remember a classmate of mine who, in a paper, wrote a construction like, “I was sitting at my desk when the phone rang.” The prof called “was sitting” passive, and — suddenly — I realized the guy had nothing to teach me.
To that extent, I agree with Sis. Better just to say what you have to say. Focus too much on the rules and you’ll drive yourself and everyone else batty. The grammarian Geoffrey Pullam has a wonderful essay on Strunk & White, in which he demonstrates how they broke their own rules without seeming to realize it.
And I keep meaning to read Elmore Leonard, but there is just never enough time.
Sorry I misspelled his name. It’s Geoffrey Pullum. Here’s the essay:
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/50years.pdf
Actually, Elmore Leonard is ideal for readers who are short on time. His books move at a brisk pace and keep things lean and direct. Probably my favorite writer for airplane flights, or cooling my heels in a doctor’s office.
Rum Punch is a good one for starters. That’s the book Tarantino copped to make Jackie Brown.
It’d be much more informative to know *why* we shouldn’t be doing the things in these lists. Admittedly, these are far more accomplished writers than me, but it’s not particularly helpful to the average budding writer. Stephen King’s “On Writing” was a very informative, easy-to-read book on the mechanics of the craft.
*1. Never open a book with weather.* Because it’s considered cliché, I guess?
*2. Avoid prologues.* No clue. I turned the first chapter of my next story into a prologue for the sole purpose of partitioning it off from the rest of the story until we return to those characters in a later chapter. Was that wrong? I could’ve just called it Chapter One, but the content would’ve been exactly the same.
*3. Never use a verb other than “said” to carry dialogue.* Admittedly, I’m guilty of this, but to me, having entire pages of “she said, he said” looks awfully repetitive. Dunno, maybe I need to reassess this.
*4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb “said”…he admonished gravely.* I guess the thinking behind this is: Let The Dialogue Do The Talking. No need to explain the character said that thing in a certain way, because the dialogue itself conveyed it adequately. Except sometimes you want to have the character say something in a way that the dialogue doesn’t express. “I’m going to rip your spleen out via your arsehole,” said the old lady sweetly.
*5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.* The law of diminishing returns, I suppose. Exclamation points have more impact when you use them sparingly. I failed the assignment. Badly.
*6. Never use the words “suddenly” or “all hell broke loose.”* More clichés. I can easily agree with this one, but I’m sure I’ve used “suddenly” more than a few times.
*7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.* I guess because it starts to become obnoxious? I use regional accents a fair bit in my characters, but I tend to try and soften the dialogue in the editing/rewrites, usually out of fear that readers won’t understand what the characters are saying.
*8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.* Mmm… I think erotica writers might be exempt from this. Erotica tends to rely on description more than any other genre, but its a fine line.
*9. Don’t go into great detail describing places and things.* Personally, I find it boring to read through pages and pages of detailed descriptions. I like to sprinkle little bits of relevant information throughout the story as and when necessary. Some writers do this via footnotes.
*10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.* Again, maybe erotica writers are exempt from this. I’m sure many horny readers are skipping all the stuff I write about witches, dryads and selkies, but each chapter would be a 1000 word sex scene without it.
Learn the rules. Then you can break some of them.
I wasn’t going to add anything more to this topic. I’m a quiet mouse and I’m sure nobody wants to see my name crop up too many times. But u had to chime in here.
My biggest bugbear with erotica is probably the overlong character description. I don’t mean one or two lines, but rather a full paragraph weighed down with so much physical detail that a gynaecologist might think they’re finding out too much.
If I see this in a story I’m prone to just abandon the whole thing and go read something else. Partially because I won’t remember every last detail a few lines later, partially because it feels like I’m intruding on somebody’s private sexual fantasy, but mainly because it’s invariably a sign that the rest of the story will focus on the physical and not the emotional. It’s written porn, not erotica.
Doris Sloane had very little physical descriptions of its characters. Same too with Jewels Of Africa and Grafton Lodge. Three stories that are very different but which are definitely erotica.
And damn fine erotica too!
Lastly…. ‘”I’m going to rip your spleen out via your arsehole,” said the old lady sweetly’? Huh… I’m not sure I remember that particular Miss Marple story. That’s going to be a fun audiobook to listen to…
Regarding #3, “said” is basically invisible to readers. Even when you think it’s repetitive, people probably won’t even notice. Using different synonyms every time is actually way more noticeable, and that’s not where you want the reader’s attention most of the time. That’s not to say that it’s *never* okay to use a different word than “said” (sometimes it does add something, if the manner in which the words are said is important), but as with most things, moderation is best.
Also, if you have a string of dialogue between two people, you can leave out most of the “said” after you’ve established who spoke first and add a short bit of action.
“Good morning, Jack,” Mary said.
“Morning,” Jack said.
Mary dropped her purse on her desk. “How was your weekend?”
“Great. Yours?”
“It was great!” A smile crossed her face remembering the cute the redhead at the bar Friday night.
“Oh?” He looked up at her questioningly.
I’ll avoid “said” if I can. I’ve listened to enough audio books to know how grating it can be. This is a typical conversation from one of my stories (from the prologue of The Beekeeper’s Lament). I managed to reduce the “saids” down to a single one.
***Hailey was finishing up her article on local marine conservation efforts when Mike called her into his office. She sat down in the chair opposite his desk. She knew what was coming.
“Listen, Hailey, there’s no easy way to say this—”
“You’re firing me.”
Mike stared at her blank-eyed for a moment, then managed to compose himself. “Not firing, no – laying off.”
Hailey was pretty sure they were the same thing, but didn’t bother pointing it out.
“The thing is, it’s last to join, first to go, and Leonie’s been here longer than you. I know it’s not fair, but… well, the money’s running out. I just can’t afford to keep you on much longer.”
“It’s okay.”
Mike pulled his glasses away to pinch the bridge of his nose. “It’s not okay. None of this is okay. It won’t be long before we have to shut down the whole paper.”
“Nothing much to report in a ghost town, I suppose.”
“Yeah. But listen, this was only ever a stop gap for you, right? Morcant’s been a good place to cut your teeth, learn the tricks of the trade, but the big bucks are out there on the mainland. You would’ve left eventually.”
Hailey didn’t know if that was true or not. She’d seen this fishing village as a new life, or perhaps the reclaiming of an old one. Maybe not as a journalist – Mike was right about that. Even with a healthy populace, The Morcant Echo had never exactly been The Daily Mail. But as a published novelist writing her magnum opus from her beloved Cornish fishing village? She’d fallen in love with the idea, even if it was jumping the gun somewhat on the novel front. Now, though? She wasn’t sure. Morcant-On-Sea was not the hub of hustle bustle it’d once been. The town reeked of decay.
“Well,” Mike continued, “you don’t need to decide what you want to do right away. I can keep you on for a few more months. I just wanted to be upfront with you. I owe you that, at least.”
“I appreciate it.”
“How’s that novel coming along?”
Her first book was finished. She’d been pushing it around various publishing houses, but hadn’t had any takers yet. In the meantime, she’d begun work on a second, and told Mike as much.
“It’ll get picked up sooner or later, I’m sure of it,” he said, and Hailey wondered if he was just telling her what he thought she wanted to hear.
She had no idea if the book was good or not. Sometimes it seemed like literary genius to her; on other days, the scribblings of a child. Either way, she wasn’t hugely concerned. The consensus seemed to be that no writer should be trying to get published before they had an ample sum of years and life experiences under their belt. She was only eighteen. An exceptionally mature eighteen, with an intellect beyond her years, but eighteen nonetheless.
“Then I can tell everyone the famous novelist Hailey Ellis used to work for me,” Mike was saying.
Hailey found herself laughing at the notion. “Wouldn’t that be a splendid thing?”
“Absolutely.”***
That flows fine. The only thing is I would probably add an attribution on the “The thing is…” line, because you have Hailey doing an action right before and now it’s not immediately clear who’s speaking. Yes, it’s obvious as you read the whole line, but just to make it clear to the reader right away, maybe simply:
“The thing is, it’s last to join, first to go,” he added, “and Leonie’s been here longer than you.”
Or the way I’m imagining the scene, Mike probably expected Hailey to say something after he calls it “laying off” but she remained silent, forcing him to continue. So it could be something like:
After an awkward pause, he added, “The thing is, it’s last to join, first to go, and Leonie’s been here longer than you.”
I agree, it flows nicely. The again, there’s still Mike’s enigmatic stare…
He has a wonky eye and a severe facial tic that makes him look like he’s trying to catch flies. I’m thinking the enigmatic stare might not be entirely compatible.
Some good advice. I appreciate it.
1) Pass
2) Pass
3) Fail
4) Fail
5) Probably Fail
6) Pass (I think)
7) Pass (if you don’t count particularly British English sayings etc)
8) Pass
9) FAIL (at least until JB diplomatically points them out)
10) Who knows?
I had a particular issue with rule #3, i.e. use of ‘said’. As BlueJean states, seeing ‘said’ multiple times in a passage of dialogue is awfully repetitive, and where the dialogue needs to portray some sort of emotion/volume etc, it is too bland and monotone. I have a note file of alternative words and synonyms just to try not using the same ones all the time. I don’t have a list of alternatives to ‘said’ but might just put one together now. I have a similar issue with rule #4 re adverbs appended to ‘said’.
Most of these I agree with, but I can’t say I stick to them strictly. As was mentioned above, they are best used as guidelines. My take on them:
1. Never open a book with weather.
This one I agree mostly with. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it, and it’s true in my experience that every book or story I’ve read that opens with the weather is below par. Although I’m sure exceptions exist.
2. Avoid prologues.
No idea why this is a rule, I’m writing a story at the moment that has a prologue and it’s staying.
3. Never use a verb other than “said” to carry dialogue.
I’ve been through a journey with this rule. I used to use said and nothing else, then switched it up with all manner of oddities and now I’m back to just using said, with the odd exception here and there. I think we as authors can underestimate the reader, they generally know who’s saying what in a conversation, we just need to give a little guidance here and there. It might feel like we over use said when we’re in the writing process, but when it’s read as a whole they just go largely unnoticed, which is a good thing as you want it to be about the dialogue, not the structure that presents it.
4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb “said”…he admonished gravely.
I think ‘never’ is a bit strong here, but it’s generally good advice.
5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
I’m not sure where they got the ratio from, but again it’s generally good advice to keep them under control. Ellipses are another one, I use them far to often and find myself editing them out.
6. Never use the words “suddenly” or “all hell broke loose.”
I use suddenly occasionally, but sparingly. ‘All hell broke loose’ is just a cliché, like ‘I’m getting to old for this shit’. Cliches are generally to be avoided but they do have their place if used right.
7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
Very good advice. I got into pickle when writing a character with a strong accent and it got very, very, tiring trying to write the dialogue. It’s annoying to read it too. Far better to just drop the odd reminder in here and there of the accent the character has.
8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
This is a bit like the weather one above, Generally, long descriptions of characters are to be avoided, it’s better to drip feed it. But, I am very guilty of this myself, especially in my erotica stories where such descriptions are often what the reader has turned up to see. But it can be done without it being so obvious, for example, I’ve just written a short scene where a character washes herself that includes just enough to get an idea of what she looks like without straying into Show Don’t Tell territory.
9. Don’t go into great detail describing places and things.
Depends how it’s done, and how often it’s done, again, this is about Show, don’t tell.
10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.
Given that different readers will skip different parts, if you followed this rule you’d be forever second guessing yourself and end up with a blank page.
I find it is sometimes desirable to describe people or places, but what I try to do is pick out one or two details that will stand out in the reader’s mind and let them imagine the rest. In my story Paula, for example, I added a description of the classroom at Bruno Traven’s suggestion, but I kept it short and focused on the few spots of color: the two flags in the front of the room, and the painted blood on the crucifix over the blackboard.
Hi everyone, I’m a mere fledgling writer here, having just submitted my first two offerings which I believe are now in JB’s queue waiting to edited. I’d like to ask, if any other aspiring writers, might maybe like to collaborate on a story or two. I’d love to see the writing process from a different perspective and hopefully learn a little along the way. I look forward to any responses that may come my way. Thanks
Debs xx
Well, I’m always happy to talk about writing with people. I’m hardly an expert, nor am I exactly fast behind the keyboard, but you’re always welcome to talk if you want.
My email is [email protected]
(Important note to anyone reading this with a certain idea in their head: I am not interested in helping you masturbate. Nor will I sharing pictures or videos, especially not illegal ones. If you want that nonsense, you can go elsewhere. Ta.)